Show-stopping Issues For Me With This Site Total results: 16 Pages: 1 [ 1] |
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| Date: 2007-10-09 06:59 Jurgita's Terms and Conditions paragraph 8 says
[quote]you grant Jurgita.com and its affiliates the right to edit, copy, publish
and distribute any information or content you post or transmit for any
purpose[/quote]
The effects of this paragraph are that I allow the site to:
"edit" - specifically Jurgita resizes the picture and slaps an
intrusive logo on it, sometimes in an important part of the picture. I fully
appreciate the issues of image theft, but those people who are sufficiently
worried about a low-resolution image being stolen should be allowed to place
their own logo on images.
"copy, publish and distribute" - this is a good thing, in that
without it the site could not show my pictures to other members, which would
defeat the whole object of the site. However, the condition goes on "for
any purpose" which effectively gives the site owners permission to sell
my pictures!
If within seven days this wording is not changed to something more acceptable
and the addition of the site's logo made optional I shall have no option but to
cancel my account.
I do have other issues with the site, such as membership of the flirt zone being
a pre-requisite to being able to use the "friends" facility (as has been
commented on in other threads), the fact that certain profiles exist but which I
doubt are here with the permission of the individual concerned (e.g. Kate Moss)
thus undermining the credibility of the site as a whole, and that the active
membership is very low (though that could be remedied by more active marketing),
but those are not of themselves "show-stopper" issues.
This one is. |
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 ID: 182744 Posts: 1441 | Date: 2007-10-09 10:14 Rick: A common legal mistake that is made is to interpret the application of
wording in a dictionary sense as opposed to the legal definition and application
of wording.
The same issue of broad legal language in Terms and Conditions policies was
brought up many years ago when websites first went to lawyers to gain some type
of protection from lawsuit, theft, criminal activities of members, etc.
Particularly, people were very concerned when Yahoo! changed its terms and
condition policy to say basically the same things that Jurgita says.
Quite frankly, in most countries, a general use contract such as that utilized
by Jurgita, does not abrogate your copyright rights. "[F]or any purpose" does
not assign such broad uses as you imply as such contract cannot override the
application of general law. For most legal intents and purposes, such a phrase
is used to prevent smart alecs from using perceived loop holes or omissions in
law to make frivolous claims against the site.
Can you conceive of every possible purpose and option for which this site might
possibly be legally used in a world that is technologically changing so rapidly?
Or even, more low-tech, the simple possibility of Jurgita being sold to an
interested party?
Most courts now recognize the concept of fair compensation for transfer of
copyright or usage rights. I would be ludicrous to assume that mere display of
copyrighted materials conveys adequate compensation resulting in transfer of
sale rights to images.
I have taken a look at the terms and conditions and applied it in analysis to
practical application of U.S. and U.K. law and case law and I do not interpret
the "Terms and Conditions" in the same manner that you do.
If you are going to leave this site for that reason I daresay you will not find
any other site that will display your images without the same or similar terms
and conditions in place. The agreement simply does not convey the full and
unrestricted power to disseminate your images.
In essence, though, your images are being sold in that Jurgita
is a subscription site. It has long been established that you are receiving fair
compensation for the sale of your images as part of the whole content of
the site in that you trade for both access, exposure and passive and
active promotion. As a journalistic principle, which you acknowledge above,
Jurgita has the right to display and utilize images for the
understood purposes of the site, up t o and including
promotional purposes and leasing of the rights to view your images. But Jurgita
cannot grab your image and sell it outright. The terms and
conditions do not give Jurgita this right and, even if they did, no recognized
court would accept such practice as legal.
The concept of intellectual property began in the 1500s and really has not
changed much since then. So, do not worry...your work is protected.
I don't have a problem with Jurgita's beauty mark. I really have never run
across someone who thinks that a watermark spoiled my image. If they want one
free and clear of watermark, people know how to contact me and get a print. I
just wish more people wanted to pay for the print rather than my good natured
charity.
Optional might be nice. In fact, I have seen quite a few images Jurgita should
be embarrassed to have their name associated with. Yet still, for a free user of
the site Jurgita should maintain some benefit for allowing the unrestricted use
of its bandwidth. A logo that helps protect your image is a small price to
pay.
And...why would you doubt the veracity of the permission to have the profiles of
Kate Moss and other supermodels on the site? I have seen nothing to question
their legitimacy or the legitimacy of their representative agencies that in many
cases have placed their profiles here. If you need Kate Moss for a booking, how
would you make the approach? Oh...neato! There is her profile right here on
Jurgita and there are the agencies who book her! If I have the bucks and can
pass the agency's muster I can get right through to her people and even her if I
can work out a contract. Truthfully, I know no other site where that can be
done. Legit? Last week I initiated negotiations through this
site with an actress from several popular television shows.
What other site offers you such simple access and opportunity?
!!! Have faith that the universe will unfold as it should  |
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| Date: 2007-10-09 18:26 Carib Goodies:
Quite frankly, in most
countries, a general use contract such as that utilized by Jurgita, does not
abrogate your copyright rights. "[F]or any purpose" does not assign such broad
uses as you imply as such contract cannot override the application of general
law. For most legal intents and purposes, such a phrase is used to prevent smart
alecs from using perceived loop holes or omissions in law to make frivolous
claims against the site. A decent lawyer for Jurgita would drive a
bulldozer through such an argument if I presented it as such. No matter what
common sense might dictate, lawyers are very good at being excruciatingly
literal.
Carib Goodies:
Can you conceive of every
possible purpose and option for which this site might possibly be legally used
in a world that is technologically changing so rapidly? Or even, more low-tech,
the simple possibility of Jurgita being sold to an interested party? Never
mind legal, the only morally legitimate use which Jurgita
should make of my images are to promote me as a photographer. Even using them to
promote the site elsewhere without compensating me properly would be wrong.
I'm just re-checking other sites where I have photographer profiles, and they
all explicitly acknowledge my ownership of copyright of the
images. Jurgita fails to do that.
Carib Goodies:
If you need Kate Moss for
a booking, how would you make the approach? I would approach Storm, her
agency. |
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ID: 182744 Posts: 1441 | Date: 2007-10-09 18:58 And Storm, incidentally, happens to be a member of this site. See? One stop
shopping. (Perhaps that is more impressive to an old man like me since, when I
started, one could spend a couple hundred dollars in telephone bills during the
initial approach alone! I happen to love the ease and convenience of
Jurgita.)
I'm not going to get into a back and forth between interpretation and
application of the law. I own a publishing company and have never had an artist
sue me or complain about misuse. So, I feel confident in my understanding and
application of copyright law. I am not worried about my images that are posted
here.
As a consumer, if something in the terms and conditions makes you uncomfortable,
you can exercise your veto power as aptly threatened above. Have faith that the universe will unfold as it should |
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| Date: 2007-10-12 05:25 Carib Goodies:
I don't have a problem
with Jurgita's beauty mark. I really have never run across someone who thinks
that a watermark spoiled my image. Beauty mark?
BEAUTY mark?
It completely obliterated a critical detail in one picture I uploaded, ruining
it entirely.
Aside from which, it makes the picture appear to be owned in some way by
Jurgita, rather than by me.
Anyway, is this Jurgita's official response to me? |
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 ID: 194271 Posts: 156 | Date: 2007-10-12 06:46 I have no problem with any of this. The image is really so small that I cannot
see that anybody can use it. Also there is a handy link for your own website
provided by Jurgita where anybody that is interested can look at your
"untarnished" images.
Do not think the open members forum is the place to look for a "official"
response. |
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Cheri D. Clark aka Frenchi |
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 ID: 209800 Posts: 334 | Date: 2007-10-12 08:30 It appears this how they tend to respond to each and every issue!  |
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 ID: 186257 Posts: 235 | Date: 2007-10-12 09:01 Rick Martin:
Anyway, is this Jurgita's official response to me?
if you'll have a time to browse this forum, you will see that people even want
bigger watermark to prevent image theft. i think if someone likes your pictures
and wants to see the original ones that don't have watermark on in, that someone
can contact you. but that's not what i wanted to say. if you want to get some
official opinions, you should use 'contact us' feature that is on the bottom of
everypage. here's a link |
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ID: 186257 Posts: 235 | Date: 2007-10-12 09:03 Cheri D. Clark:
It appears this how they tend to respond to each and every issue!
i'm not sure what you are talking about, but i think contact us link
will be useful for you as well  |
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 ID: 157451 Posts: 133 | Date: 2007-10-12 10:26 oh yea i get worried some weirdo might use my pictures or somethin
but ohh weell
i like jurgita cuz i can get in contact with agencies photographers and other
models
 see more of me at
nicoleannb.com
xo |
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 ID: 166375 Posts: 511 | Date: 2007-10-15 01:14 hello everyone. i can see many angry people as always. what i cannot understand
is that one person thinks he has a right to change the whole website because he
is not happy and it completely does not matter if many people are for the system
and would like it to be even bigger (i mean the logo here).
Your official response: Jurgita.com has never used any image from here in any
case. NEVER USED AND NEVER WILL. The logo is used for saving the photos from
using in other websites or purposes. If the photos are shown only in your
profile so I do not think someone may think they are not yours and belong to
jurgita.com.
If there is Kate Moss on this website it is great. I have just checked and her
profile was created in 2003, maybe at that time she was not a top model and she
has joined websites like jurgita.com to get exposure. Jurgita.com has never
created profiles. All of the members have joined their own free will.
We do not work on weekends. If you want an official response use the ticket
system.
Cheri D. Clark:
It appears this how they tend to respond to each and every issue!
Dear Cheri, it is not the first time i am reading your comments and they do not
look very nice. Most of the times you are stating something about the website
when you do not know it and state only your guesses. You should visit the help
article section before posting untruthful comments and hoping for an argue,
which i would like to avoid and find a compromise each time. This is not a
warning, this is how i ask you to stop searching for argues and posting
untruthful comments.Love to Love |
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| Date: 2007-10-15 03:15 Rasa N.:
what i cannot understand is
that one person thinks he has a right to change the whole website because he is
not happy and it completely does not matter if many people are for the system
and would like it to be even bigger (i mean the logo here). Rasa, I make
no pretensions to thinking that I have such a right. What I do
have is the right to leave the site if I find I no longer agree with the terms
and conditions of the site.
However, if I simply left without saying anything, questions would be asked
about why I left, no-one would be any the wiser, no-one would have the
opportunity to learn something, no-one would have the chance to take simple
action which might avert my leaving.
By laying out my concerns like this, I have given you those things. That you
choose to take no action is then not a sin of omission but an active decision.
I have also given you the opportunity to consider whether the issues I raised
are perhaps something which will be a root cause of why so many more
photographers and models have not joined the site. Perhaps it is true that some
people like the logo on their pictures, but perhaps it is something which has
turned many more people away from the site and you've never known it?
Rasa N.:
Your official response:
Jurgita.com has never used any image from here in any case. NEVER USED AND NEVER
WILL. Then would you please re-word the terms and conditions to replace the
"for any purpose" with something which makes this clear? Current site management
might have the attitude which you say, which would be a good thing, but the site
may be sold in the future and the new owner would then be perfectly entitled to
take a different view.
Rasa N.:
The logo is used for saving the
photos from using in other websites or purposes. If the photos are shown only in
your profile so I do not think someone may think they are not yours and belong
to jurgita.com. We have differing opinions here. I still believe that it
could be viewed that way.
Rasa N.:
If there is Kate Moss on this
website it is great. I have just checked and her profile was created in 2003,
maybe at that time she was not a top model and she has joined websites like
jurgita.com to get exposure. Kate Moss started her international modelling
career in 1988 (aged 14) and has been with Storm ever since.
My initial post boils down to two things I wanted changed:
1. To replace the wording "for any purpose" with something more acceptable;
2. To make the superimposition of the Jurgita logo on our pictures optional.
Thank you for taking the time to give the official response. |
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ID: 166375 Posts: 511 | Date: 2007-10-16 03:01 1. I have changed the terms and conditions. I agree that you pointed it with a
good purpose and agree that it had to be edited having in mind that we have
never supported that king of practice. Thank you for this. We are also people
and sometimes forget..
2. The logo may not be changed or made optional as it is the only way of saving
the photos from using in other sites. Many members here do not have their own
logos and cannot save their photos themselves. The logo had many discussions
before and it was chosen as the best option for photos security. Sorry, I cannot
help in this matter, maybe you are right and there were good photographers
leaving because of this, but we know the majority is for the logo, so we cannot
change this.
I am sure you can leave because you do not approve. However, I feel I have made
changes (which I could) and was honest with you on your questions. There is
nothing more I can and would be glad you could take our changes as a compromise
and still stay as active community member.Love to Love |
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| Date: 2007-10-16 13:57 Rasa N.:
1. I have changed the terms and
conditions. I agree that you pointed it with a good purpose and agree that it
had to be edited having in mind that we have never supported that king of
practice. Thank you for this. We are also people and sometimes forget..
"Jurgita.com and its affiliates will not edit, copy, publish or distribute
any information or content you post or transmit without your permission."
This is much better, thank you. Given that displaying a portfolio is
"publishing" it, I would have said that it could still have said
"Jurgita.com and its affiliates will not edit, copy, publish or distribute
any information or content you post or transmit without your permission other
than in the context of the forums or user's portfolio."but that's something
you might want to take time over, rather than rushing into.
Rasa N.:
2. The logo may not be changed
or made optional as it is the only way of saving the photos from using in other
sites. Many members here do not have their own logos and cannot save their
photos themselves. The logo had many discussions before and it was chosen as the
best option for photos security. Sorry, I cannot help in this matter, maybe you
are right and there were good photographers leaving because of this, but we know
the majority is for the logo, so we cannot change this. I hear what you're
saying, and I know that you have to do what you feel is right for the site,
taking into account the views of the majority of members (or at least the
majority of those who've taken the time to write) but while you maintain the
policy regarding the addition of your logo I will not be able to add any more
pictures.
Rasa N.:
I am sure you can leave because
you do not approve. However, I feel I have made changes (which I could) and was
honest with you on your questions. There is nothing more I can and would be glad
you could take our changes as a compromise and still stay as active community
member. You have changed the wording in your Terms and Conditions, for
which I thank you, so I shall reflect further on the other matter before
deciding what to do.
Thank you for showing yourselves as being responsive to members' concerns,
though, and even if we're not always going to agree at least we're always going
to be able to discuss the issues. |
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| Date: 2007-11-03 01:17 That was all pretty funny stuff. |
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Cheri D. Clark aka Frenchi |
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ID: 209800 Posts: 334 | Date: 2007-11-03 15:26 Maybe to you-- but obviously to them, it is quite an issue. I don't think anyone
will agree with it being funny.............. |
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Announcement |
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| From now on 50 activity points will turn into 1 credit, so you may earn credits as easy as never before !!!
All models and photographers are able to moderate photos! We will save a lot of time for moderators this way. Please read the short instruction on how to moderate and earn points very quickly.
Also, models and photographers can moderate part of the profiles as well! This is a fast way to earn some action points and credits! |
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