Last post by Lisa Coppens in topic any input?Topics: 2753Posts: 29086Orange Models Casting Agency Total results: 33 Pages: 1 | 2 [ 2] |
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| Date: 2008-01-09 19:24 Hi,
I'm Emily, casting director for Orange Models in London. We are a casting agency
listing paid modeling opportunities for young up and coming models. If you think
you have what it takes to be a model, dedicated, versatile and adventurous then
have a look at the job board on our website:
http://orangemodels.hl.to/
Hope to see you there.
Emily |
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| Date: 2008-01-09 20:34 These guys seem dodgy - they are pretty much just looking for minors, and they
only seems to want them for "swimwear, lingerie, and GLAMOUR!!!"
What kind of minor should be doing glamour.
Mods want to check this out?
If it smells of kiddy porn - think about getting some verification to confirm
they are legit.
If you've done this already, then great. |
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| Date: 2008-01-09 20:44 Yep... just had a look... probably If I was running an agency like this I'd have
a secure log in for clients so not just anyone could peruse photos of underage
girls in swimwear who are apparently "success stories"...
Gee... most agencies would call it a "news section" and write about the exploits
of any new campaigns etc.
These guys post alot of links too, trying to entice people to see them and up
their visibility on the site - a problem? no... But that an agency needs to
repeatedly hit up the same space soooo often with the same casting call, that
most people will see if they look in the appropriate section... to me it looks
more like fishing for people who will take the bait.
Again, maybe it is all above board, but most agencies I know would not advertise
the pay rates - because that depends on the job and usage rights.
Also, why do they ask for 13 year olds, yet only disclaim "they must have their
parents consent" - as opposed to asking their parents to contact them.
I would not suggest any young girl send bikini or underwear photos to any such
agency, better still is to have your parents meet with the people (make sure
your parents learn a bit about the industry first), and still use your own head. |
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Cheri D. Clark aka Frenchi |
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 ID: 209800 Posts: 335 | Date: 2008-01-09 22:57 Good evening everyone,
I recieved an email from a dear friend this evening. I thought I should share it
with the site's models ...
RE: MEMBER AT YOUR SITE - ORANGEMODELS
This is MIKE a former member at Jurgita! I noted tonight whilst browsing your
forum that a member orangemeodels was posting there!
I have previously checked this person out in the past! They contact young girls
11 - 13 ask them to view their site and suggest work inapropriate for the girls
ages! They say on their site 13-18yo for Lingerie/swimwear work! They have no
mention of Parents/Guardians!
The IP checks out to London UK and usually a UK Mobile number is quoted, but the
site checks out to Korea!
If you visit their site and view the young girls photos you will see what I mean
by un-suitable for age! They may have more than one profile as the Womans name
quoted generally has another seperate profile! I would suggest looking into
their messages sent and watching out for any events/blogs they may have added to
avoid minors contacting them direct!
I thought I should advise you of this as soon as I saw them!
MIKE
Just FYI ---------- |
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 ID: 182744 Posts: 1441 | Date: 2008-01-10 00:48 Sorry, Cheri, Mike seems to have jumped to a conclusion based upon Internic
results which are misleading at best. While hl.to is served by a Korean IP
address, that IP address is in turn owned by a seemingly Arabian company named
holywar.net. An Internic search would not tell you whether this Orange Models is
affiliated in any way with those two sites except that their website is resident
on their servers. In spite of the ominous sound, in actuality it is the same as
the web page mike.myspace.com. A businesses server location has nothing really
to do with the location of the business. I live in the Virgin Islands and my
websites are served through Texas. That was the company that gave me the best
package, rates and service.
To go all spooky-eyed over the location of a web server is not prudent and
misleads the issue.
When this matter was first brought to my attention, I was like "Not Orange
Models". I know Orange Models to be a huge and very reputable model agency out
of Canada. Further searching found me many Orange Models around the world. Well,
trade name is not necessarily automatically protected across international
borders. It seems several companies have chosen to capitalize off of the
Canadian Orange Models name.
I looked at the companies web site and their advertisements.
Where do we draw the line between a legal argument and a moral argument? The
agency's recruitment pitches do not violate any laws I know of. I, personally,
have not witnessed any violation of Jurgita's rules. Point of fact, whether
certain people like it or not, agencies are allowed by law to advertise for
minors to pose in swim wear and underwear.
The United States calls illegal sexually exploitive images of minors. This
leaves enforcement ambiguous and interpretive at best. I recalled in a post many
months ago the battle that Florida had against a series of websites dedicated
solely to selling weekly images of teens and pre-teens in underwear, swim wear
and close-to-revealing casual wear. Florida tried to shut down the website
several times through legal action and failed every time. The site finally
closed down when citizens raised a loud moral protest and attacked Google and
any search engine that listed the sites. The company folded under the public
pressure.
Catch them at child porn, child exploitation, deceptive trade
practices...anything...otherwise it sounds like a witch hunt. Exercise your
moral outrage directly to the agency and see whether they consider their
policies worthy of review.
My quagmire as a volunteer moderator is that I hear your cry, yet I have to be
neutral in order to be fair to all parties. I will consult other moderators and
Administration about their position on this matter. I will also investigate the
company using my own resources.
The question remain, though as to where we draw the line. Do we follow the exact
letter of the law or are we forced to create our own interpretive standards as
to what is and is not acceptable? Someone once said: I cannot define porn, but I
know it when I see it.
I see the images of their advertised minors on the website and truthfully I
would not call those wholesome or innocent pictures of children from a Christian
standpoint. Their methods and purposes do seem to warrant investigation.
In the meantime, kids, don't send your pictures out. Have faith that the universe will unfold as it should  |
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| Date: 2008-01-10 05:07 OFFENSIVE COMMENTS!
I just feel like I should post a comment here to defend myself from the
offensive and narrow minded comments my company has received.
First and foremost I feel people should read through everything first before
making rash and ill informed comments. All our listings on our site are above
board, we do NOT ask for minors for glamour work.
With regards to swimwear/underwear work, I'm not sure if people realise but
shoots are being prepared for summer fashions, all ages wear swimwear you
know!
And finally all our applicants are asked that they receive there parents
consent. That is just to contact us in the first place, without taking it any
further.
In future if any one has a problem, especially ROMEO DEVLIN, perhaps they can
contact me in person before shooting there mouth off, I find it very
unprofessional behaviour. |
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Cheri D. Clark aka Frenchi |
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ID: 209800 Posts: 335 | Date: 2008-01-10 08:06 I do apologize if I jumped the gun. Thank you for your input to enlighten me. I
often assume that information is factual if received from a reliable source.
Once again, I apologize for any negative comments that you may have
received...
 |
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| Date: 2008-01-10 08:25 I'm gonna shoot my mouth off again.
All I said was it looks suss... and to me it does.
Telling 13 year olds to get "their parents consent" to follow a dream, is as
good as telling them to ask their parents if they can sneak some of the whiskey
in the cupboard.
Maybe you find it easier to deal with 13 year olds than their parents? I don't
know.
Anyway, as for defending yourself from my comments - all you said was that
minors do do swimwear and "lingerie" .... um... I don't know that I'd call it
lingerie - maybe underwear at that age - but that's semantics.
Sure they do, however in my country at least, they are hired from childrens
agencies that have models on board already and don't need to post numerous
bulletins asking kiddies to send swimsuit pics.
Let's keep things clear too, I haven't accused you of anything yet... I am just
doing you a favor by pointing out that it looks fishy - and apparently not just
to me. If you're above board and looking out for the kids, than you'll take this
as constructive criticism of your marketing.
And as for 16 year olds doing glamour... well... in some places that's still
considered "minor" but hey - the argument isn't whether kids not old enough to
drink, drive, or smoke, should be selling sex... is it... |
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| Date: 2008-01-10 08:39 Orange Models:
With regards to swimwear/underwear work, I'm not sure if people realise but
shoots are being prepared for summer fashions, all ages wear swimwear you
know!
I have looked at your website. And I found it very disturbing that you were
asking for girls as young as 11 years old to send you pictures of them in
swimwear. And girls as young as 16 to do "Glamour" modeling - this kind of work
is not suitable for a minor.
I have worked with Romeo Devlin & I have watched him at work in fashion shows. I
can assure you that he is very professional, experienced & knows what he is
talking about when it comes to the industry. |
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| Date: 2008-01-10 08:50
In response to recent posts, I welcome all comments, good or bad, as long as
they are kept in a professional tone and it doesn't become an attack or witch
hunt. As a reputable business I am happy to act on all comments in order to make
my business stronger. |
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 ID: 199345 Posts: 356 | Date: 2008-01-10 11:35 Orange Models:
I welcome all comments.... As a reputable business I am happy to act on all
comments in order to make my business stronger.
I would suggest that if you want to be considered as a reputable UK agency then
you can do two things to mitigate suspicion. Firstly get a website that appears
uk based. .co.uk for example.
Secondly have a physical address and telephone number within the "contact us"
section. |
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Cheri D. Clark aka Frenchi |
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ID: 209800 Posts: 335 | Date: 2008-01-10 18:47 Perhaps we should have a special forum for topics on current modeling scams. The
area that is supposed to have this info has not worked in quite a while if I
remeber right. The page is "no longer available" or whatever the case was. This
way people could check things out for themselves before making a comment to
inform others..I also think that the agencies should be verified before they are
able to be viewed by members.
Update: I have just viewed the photos on this site. Most are not appropriate
shots ----or garments for little girls. Orange models -- you need to re-think
how you are representing these children. Personally, I think they are sexually
suggestive. Bad taste here folks... |
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ID: 182744 Posts: 1441 | Date: 2008-01-10 22:54 Romeo:
1) Asking for parental consent from a minor is a standard and acceptable
business practice.
2) There is no world standard for the age at which a child becomes an adult or
can sell sex. There are places in the United States where a 14 year old can
consent. There are Scandinavian countries where prostitution is legal from age
14. You have Malaysia where a person is a child until age 21. (Interesting thing
is that the United States has been pushing the United Nations for a universal
age 18 for minimum marriage age but cannot legally enforce such within its own
borders.) Both hypocrisy and ambiguity surround the issue of children.
3) Lingerie is made for minors. I have seen it for new borns. I do not know of
any western nation that bans child models from advertising such. Orange Models
(this entity) has a base in the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom has the
strongest laws against photographing minors nude I have seen outside of the
Muslim world. The Bobby's would shut them down in an instant.
4) Agencies have always done casting calls and tend to utilize the technology
available for such. It used to be door-to-door, then posters, then mail, then
radio, then TV. Why not now the Internet? I have over two and a half decades in
the business and I have always known it to be standard for agencies to require
the submission of sample photos with a request for interview. The only basis for
concern ever has been that the requesting party sometimes truly is not an agency
or that a disreputable agency would sell the images. Anonymous image sales or
distribution has become quite difficult these days with world-wide
circulation.
Orange Models:
1) While I do not necessarily agree with Mike's (Note this is not the Mike in
Cheri's post) contention that a web address should reflect one's base of
operation (I use dot coms, myself), wow does a search for your domain ownership
raise eyebrows among those not familiar with methods of domain brokering. Most
of us have no idea where most of the sites we visit each day are based or who
serves the site. While the company you host your site with should have no
bearing upon the reputation of your company, holywar.net will scare the bejesus
out of anyone. Mike does have a point that for the ignorant a more common domain
extension reduces suspicion.
2) I never, ever, as both a professional and personal policy, deal with any
business that makes finding their telephone number difficult. Is not it in the
best interest of most businesses to be able to have people contact them easily?
Plus you are dealing with minors. Everyone who deals with minors knows that
every single thing needs to be transparent and above board. You cannot ask for
our respect for your claimed legitimate business enterprise if you hide behind
an Email address. If I were the parent of a child interested in modeling with
you, I would certainly want to talk to someone first before establishing Email
communications.
3) In business for ten years but I cannot find any references for you. I could
forgive the lack of references for a new agency, but where are yours? I see a
straight recruitment effort on your website, but nothing to say that I should
endorse or recommend you. There is nothing that I can easily check up on without
a lot of grunt work. You have to make things easy for parents to verify and
double check. I can understand a website under construction. What I cannot
understand is recruiting from a website under construction. Have a little pride
and fix your site up first, huh? Your site appearance screams 'fly-by-night'.
4) Sue me if you want, but a number of your pictures appear to me to be sexually
suggestive and would raise hackles here in the U.S. In fact they have...Cheri's
mom. I am familiar with children's clothing catalogs from many places and the
larger line companies that still use models for children's wear simply do not
use those types of poses to promote their product. The examples of modeling in
many of your shots seems to be advertising the model and not the clothing being
worn. If your intent is not to produce enticing pictures of minors you need to
have a long talk with your art director and photographer. Photographing minors
is a very, very sensitive issue for good reason. And a parent or adult is not
being paranoid in protecting their children. I have three kids so my voice is
not a neutral one, but rather loud and strong and increasingly in the majority.
I am a photographer and I still would pull a Rambo on anyone who took and posted
images of my daughter similar to the racier ones on your site.
Rambo.
Okay? Have faith that the universe will unfold as it should |
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| Date: 2008-01-11 01:15 Very informative & well written Karl! |
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| Date: 2008-01-11 04:00 Thanks for your imput Carib,
It was nice to read a well written, articulate, impartial opinion of things.
Some of the points raised particularly about image content are being looked
into, and as a result several images have been removed from the site. I must
clarify here that none of the pictures on the site were taken by the agency but
were sent to us by the models/parents, some times weeks after as a kind of look
what I'm doing email. New ones will be uploaded at a later date.
With regards to web address, this is a very important one, and one that has
proven how your company is perceived, again this is being looked into. All
major.co/.com etc address' were taken at the time, hence why we ended this
one.
I must also stress that when I say ten years in the industry, this is not with
orange models, 5 years was spent as a model, for catalogue companies mainly and
4 years as producer/casting director with modeling agencies. 2 years
(overlapping with orange models.)
Thanks for your imput guys, its not very nice being the source of so much
disquiet. |
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 ID: 170792 Posts: 681 | Date: 2008-01-11 07:09 Orange Models:
Thanks for your imput guys, its not very nice being the source of so much
disquiet.
Sorry Emily or rather Orange Models you shouldnt feel like u r being a source of
disquietness . This is a very informative forum.
The fact you are dealing with minors u should always be ready for such questions
and u should be prepared to answer correctly and proffessionaly irrespective of
the way they might be addressed. Remember that u are expecting someone who is a
parent to trust you with their daughters pictures. It's ur obligation to try and
convince everyone who raises concern about ur legitimacy.
At this point I can only say that the pictures in ur website are in some kind I
would call "suggestive" |
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| Date: 2008-01-11 07:44 Karl,
I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
On the subject of parental consent, I was merely suggesting that parents should
be more than "consenting" at this stage - perhaps representing the child's
interests. I was implying that a kid who's really keen on modeling might just
lie and say they have their parents consent - maybe they would be embarrassed to
ask them or whatever... Not everyone has as understanding a Mom as Cheryl.
Secondly, whether there is a hard and fast age limit for selling sex or not.
There seems to be agreement between everyone that has posted so far that some of
the pics posted were "below the limit of acceptability"... It's a subjective
thing, I know. But don't shoot the messenger.
Lastly, that I care to redress: asking for underwear models, and lingerie models
- whilst theoretically the same - has slightly different connotations to me and
others I have asked. Underwear my macro sample believe to be little briefs,
training bras, singlets and the likes you would find in any Kmart catalogue...
Lingerie, however, was deemed more "adult" and Victorias Secret-esque. A simple
rewording here could solve this. And of course I'm not suggesting that kids
underwear catalogues are risque or illegal :p
Thanks for taking an interest everyone. |
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ID: 182744 Posts: 1441 | Date: 2008-01-11 08:14 Orange Models:
I am glad to see that you have given an open ear to the industry professionals
on the site. Most people respond to constructive criticism with open
belligerence and temper tantrums. They grab their ball and run home which does
no one any good. On the flip side, many people do criticize with anger, an
understandable emotion, but if one looks through the anger you can see the point
being made.
I, myself, have a new modeling agency not seven months old that serves the
Western Caribbean region. I have held two open casting calls and, as you are
probably very well aware, people send or bring in a lot of junk pictures as
their comp set. Some of the pictures truly can only be classed as pornography.
As agents responsible for both the booking and well being of the models under
our chaperonage, we have to be aware of everything the models are doing for
their actions reflect back upon our companies which in turn can hurt our
reputation and ability to negotiate bookings with businesses that have an honest
fear of public reprisal and boycotts.
I trash probably 99% of the submissions sent to me. Models, take
note!! I trash 99% of the submissions sent to me. 99 out of one
hundred. Many models do not take the time to read submission requirements or
simply do not understand what current industry trends and needs are. I
continually refer models to Jurgita's article section for examples of time
tested and true conservative acceptable and required industry images.
I also never, ever post or display model photo submissions. They almost never
portray the carefully crafted image I have created for my company plus I have no
idea if the model truly owns the images and has the right to give me permission
to display them. I really do not need a photographer knocking on my door and
handing a bill for rights usage. Instead, if I select a model, I commission a
portfolio shoot for the model myself with a photographer who has been briefed on
what images I need.
Models need to be groomed. No matter what their level of professionalism, they
need to be groomed to portray your particular company's image and branding as
well as how to present themselves to each individual client. This has absolutely
nothing to do with the model's level of skill, experience or expertise. Senators
are briefed before meetings. Police are advised of tactical situations before
approach. Business people prep for every meeting individually. The same applies
in our industry. Whenever a model is sent out by your agency, your client
assumes that you guarantee the model and performance. Any failures or
embarrassments reflect directly upon the agency and its reputation. No one gets
booked by my agency without first a face-to-face meeting, a day's training
seminar, a review of their previous work and a handbook of do's and don't's. And
any model can be released on the spot for violations of the handbook.
Tough, yes, but needed if clients are to have confidence and trust in the
persons I send them. Violations of the trust cost me business and costs every
single model under my banner potential revenue.
You seem to have created a business model and an industry niche that you feel
comfortable in targeting. It is, however, a niche that invites high public
scrutiny. You have to be Mother Theresa in your dealings. More holy than the
saints themselves or see your business crumble into dust.
The actions you have told us you are taking are great. I would make one more
suggestion for the moment. Since you are a new agency without a long list of
client references to post, publicize your own resume and experience
conspicuously on your website and and on your Jurgita portfolio. It will also
help your credibility if you post acceptable images of the models you represent
on your Jurgita portfolio. Although Jurgita verifies the validity and actual
legitimate existence of any model agency obtaining a portfolio on the site,
blank portfolios scream "Fly by Night. Not serious." Post model images and even
brand your own face to the company. Knowing the face of the person one is
dealing with inspires a higher degree of trust.
Again, I am glad you have taken the members' concerns to heart and I wish you
the best of luck in the growth of your agency through open and transparent
means. Have faith that the universe will unfold as it should |
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ID: 182744 Posts: 1441 | Date: 2008-01-11 08:24 Romeo Devlin:
Karl,
I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
On the subject of parental consent, I was merely suggesting that parents should
be more than "consenting" at this stage - perhaps representing the child's
interests. I was implying that a kid who's really keen on modeling might just
lie and say they have their parents consent - maybe they would be embarrassed to
ask them or whatever... Not everyone has as understanding a Mom as Cheryl.
Secondly, whether there is a hard and fast age limit for selling sex or not.
There seems to be agreement between everyone that has posted so far that some of
the pics posted were "below the limit of acceptability"... It's a subjective
thing, I know. But don't shoot the messenger.
Lastly, that I care to redress: asking for underwear models, and lingerie models
- whilst theoretically the same - has slightly different connotations to me and
others I have asked. Underwear my macro sample believe to be little briefs,
training bras, singlets and the likes you would find in any Kmart catalogue...
Lingerie, however, was deemed more "adult" and Victorias Secret-esque. A simple
rewording here could solve this. And of course I'm not suggesting that kids
underwear catalogues are risque or illegal :p
Thanks for taking an interest everyone.
I hear you, Romeo. Parental Consent is the industry term defining parental
involvement. Parents themselves decide whether their involvement is peripheral,
involved or intrusive. No reputable agency will allow a minor to just walk in
with a piece of paper with a scratched signature. They verify thoroughly because
the trouble they can get into is worse than the wrath of God.
The underwear/lingerie thing I absolutely will not touch with minors. Way too
much controversy and ambiguity there as you have rightly pointed out. It is also
very difficult to argue one's point with 'revealing' pictures of minors even
when the law is on your side. The accused will always be on the defensive. In
the U.S. you see more and more clothing companies using dummies or flat layouts
of underwear/swimsuits/lingerie to picture their catalog products for children.
Unfortunately, this closes down a huge niche for burgeoning child models, but we
are moving towards a world where our children are protected and temptation is
removed from the scoundrels who view children as sex objects. Have faith that the universe will unfold as it should |
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 ID: 666 Posts: 68 | Date: 2008-01-14 05:08 1. As a part of Jurgita.com team I see one important issue with orangemodels
website, that was pinpointed earlier by Mike - the business information is
lacking. Phone is not enough, physical address of office is important. And
company information, preferably one that can be checked. I would not allow my
kids go to an agency without address provided that i could double-check.
I hope this will be corrected soon - names, address, etc. We are planing to
check for it stricter in the future and remove from listings ones that keep it
hidden. Also, we are performing basic agency reputation check, and already list
some agencies as scams in our website.
2. Also, i think its kinda unprofessional to post pictures models provide as
long as they are not professional suitable shots of previous jobs. But that
happens for young/small agencies due to lack of resources. This is one of things
to look when applying to job.
3. Also, about Parent Consent. Yes, this has to be checked carefully by any
serious agency to avoid problems. There is only one issue - from certain age,
you hire model, not its parents. So you have approach models and first see if
they are willing and suitable.
You can work with infants without their direct consent, but even with kids they
have to work willingly in first place, or it wont work out. So BOTH minor and
parent have to be approached in general. And its regulated by local and EU law
(as in UK too). As long as company is legitimate (business information provided,
you can check their references), i see no problem with people looking for minors
for swimwear shoots. That brings to 1st point.
4. About the terms. Some of terms in website are picked kinda badly, I agree
with romeo on that point. Especially knowing that Orange Models are UK based.
5. About fishing in the same spot... We put ads in local mediums to find
suitable applicants for modeling job too. The market is tough and we have to
trash lots of applications to find proper models. Thats the life - you look
continuously in the places where you can expect meeting suitable people.
Jurgita.com is one of such places for many. Nothing bad with wanting being
visible. There are new people joining here each day. The biggest part of this
magazine is just about being visible.
Overall, I see this as a very informative and good discussion and hope the
problems in orange models website will be corrected. And many thanks to all,
especially Carib GoodiesPart of jurgita.com administration team. |
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