How Do You Dueling With Model Who Has No Experience Total results: 15 Pages: 1 [ 1] |
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 ID: 164268 Posts: 10 | Date: 2008-02-29 09:02 My models has no experience and its hard to work with cus they don't much help
your portfolio.
Is it my fault cus my limited skills? |
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 ID: 183878 Posts: 946 | Date: 2008-02-29 09:16 I see nothing wrong technically with your exposures. There's nothing wrong with
the models, although the posing seems slightly awkward.
I say always make the model comfortable, work inside their range, do easy stuff
until they have warmed up, then go for the more avant garde. Practice makes for
better, if not perfect.
Then there is the possibility that there may be a language problem. If the
models aren't native speakers of your language, or if all of you are
communicating in second languages, then problems can arise.If I haven't been there, I'm still planning on going!
If I haven't done it, I've still got time to try! |
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 ID: 164268 Posts: 10 | Date: 2008-02-29 09:19 Charles Griffin:
I see nothing wrong technically with your exposures. There's nothing wrong with
the models, although the posing seems slightly awkward.
I say always make the model comfortable, work inside their range, do easy stuff
until they have warmed up, then go for the more avant garde. Practice makes for
better, if not perfect.
Then there is the possibility that there may be a language problem. If the
models aren't native speakers of your language, or if all of you are
communicating in second languages, then problems can arise.
Thanks Charles G.
I think you're right, cus English is my second language. |
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 ID: 182744 Posts: 1441 | Date: 2008-02-29 10:57 There are few professions where you need to know the ins and outs of
personalities more than in photography.
Part of your art is drawing out the core of the individual for the role they
have to play.
Think of modeling as acting. Think of yourself as the director. A director on a
movie set has to do anything within reason to get the desired emotion, effect
and performance out of the actor.
Sometimes, when dealing with unskilled models, the photographer has to create a
situation in which the proper emotion is shown.
I have had models and the need for a happy, exuberant scene...not overboard with
exaggerated expressions, but genuine joy restrained by the very real fact that
people rarely let out their true emotional feelings in public. So, I create
situations where the emotions are genuine. For scenes such as this I have on
occassion had an order f flowers delivered during the shoot. That moment of
realization in the model that the flowers are for her causes her emotional guard
or nervousness to be let down for a few brief seconds and in that time I can get
some shots of honest emotion.
On the flip side I have had to make models mad to get an angry shot. Bore them
to death to obtain ennui. Treat them like a princess to get love or longing.
Etc., etc., etc.
At the end of the day, however, everyone needs to realize everything was just an
act to get the job done. A photographer working without directors has to have
thick skin sometimes.
And then the bottom line is that you have to have a firm idea in your head
before the shoot of exactly what you want and how you are going to achieve your
goal.
Charles' point about communication is an interesting one which brings back
memories of a London model I worked with several years ago. She spoke a deep
cockney and gave me more communications problems than any other foreign model I
have worked with. We were both speaking English (I think) but neither of us
could understand a word the other was saying. We did several dozen shoots over
the course of two weeks. By the second shoot I brought along with me a local
model who would pose and then the London model copy. Other shoots I started
pantomiming what I needed. I also typed up instructions.
All communication is basically the same. We share the same experiences worldwide
and react to emotional situations in the same way. Outward manifestation may be
different, but the core is the same. Languages formed based upon our mimicking
or assigning sounds to things that naturally described them to other people. Why
language has evolved and become more complex, the root entomologies remain. Find
the commonalities and you will suddenly find you can communicate very well with
people who speak other languages.
A happy smile or gesture gets a happy smile in return. A dissatisfied scowl
causes worry and insecurity. Sticking out your tongue gets a laugh. Scratching
your armpit suddenly distracts attention and causes a wide range of emotional
looks to ripple across a face in a fraction of a second.
Think about what situations provoke various emotions in you and imitate them for
your model.
Be patient. You can never rush something and have it turn out perfect.
Be confidant. If you show weakness or uncertainty, your model will not stay in
role.
(And, I try not to duel with models. I am quite handy with guns and blades but do not
like cleaning up the bloody mess they leave behind.) Have faith that the universe will unfold as it should  |
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Cheri D. Clark aka Frenchi |
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 ID: 209800 Posts: 334 | Date: 2008-02-29 17:33 As always good advice Karl.
 |
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 ID: 128069 Posts: 165 | Date: 2008-03-07 23:23 Yo Lewis,
U should showcase your works with the better models and those with a full
creative team (Top Hong Kong Makeup artists, Hairstylists, Fashion Stylists and
art directors). Loved your work with Bro Harry Lam.
Having a Fashion Stylist or Art Directors will help in shoots with raw and
inexperienced models. Alternatively, a mood board or sample pictures can help to
illustrate and help these new models to visualise the mood and poses that are
required to achieve your desirable effect. Its hard for many raw models to jump
right in and perform, especially for high fashion shoots. However, they will
need all the opportunities to gain the necessary experience and it can be seen
why many model agencies in Hong kong send their models to fashion photographers
based locally for test shoots.
Cheers,
Tuck |
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| Date: 2008-03-13 07:57 I'm finding Karl is a great rescorce here even tho I'm new to the site. He is
spot on as usual.
To me the key is making the model feel as comfortable with you, and you with
her, as possable. At the same time as you are doing what Karl spoke about. This
is hard at first as everybody is different and you need different ways of doing
this. Trust me you can make them mad at you to get a shot, while they fully
trust you. You dont need to be thier best friend, but the trust has to be
there!!! If you are going to do a nude she has to be more comfortable being nude
with you there, than with her own boyfriend. This is hard as well, but you cant
get the best shots with out this trust. They may be good, but I dont think they
can be great... the slightest apprehension will seep thru to the shot.
As for your shots They are pretty good. A few are blown out a bit, and a bit
overprocessed. Also shadows on the back drop. But in general they are not that
bad.The girls seem comfortable ( as mentioned above) with you. I think you are
on the right track. |
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 ID: 162309 Posts: 37 | Date: 2008-03-28 16:52 If your model is inexperienced, it's more work for you, naturally. that's why as
a photographer, you have to be prepared to do your own upgrading. it's not
enough to just use an experienced model, because if you're inexperienced, that
model will not work with you either. i suggest practising more with someone on
your level until you're able to coach the inexperienced model.
you are the one capturing the photographs. the end results depend on you. so the
stress is more on you the photographer.
you have to know what to look for, and how to tell the model what to do.
if you're inexperienced, then it's difficult.
i suggest doing a lot of homework. go to the library, borrow books ,
videos,etc.. and study study study the great photographers in fashion, glamour,
or others.
see if you can understand why model stand in a certain way, pose a certain way,
why they stretch, why they lean forward, backwards, etc...
why being too relax makes a model's tummy pouch, why twisiting too much makes
the neck or waist crease, why not turning at the waist enough makes her look
"fat",etc...
notice it's the little things we tend to miss. why a model looks better on tippy
toes,
why the weight is distributed over her body , and the equilibrium.
lots of things, i know. the great artists, photographers, painters,... all
studied the human body. they study muscles,etc.. anatomy. it's no coincidence
that the best artists are also the best student in anatomy, balance, physics,
lighting, etc.
for you, i suggest to show the model what you want them to do. not just say
it.
make copies of model poses, and show them. this is what i want you to do...
and explain . when they look and hear you , they will have a better idea , then
let them relax a bit, practise... like a dress rehearsal... if you're shooting
polaroids or digital, you can spare a few rough shots, shoot while they are
rehearsing so you can look at them with your model. and say, ok, this is good,
this one your weight is a bit too much , try leaning the other way,etc.
be specific, no vague instructions... lean forward look
lighter 
i hope you understand.
good luck, keep practising... and do your homework.
here's a little anecdote i used to tell my students, whenever i do teach ...
this is a favourite all the time:
a musician was looking for directions to royal albert hall. he stopped an old
man, who looked like a music conductor. he asked, "sir, can you tell me how i
can get to the royal albert hall?"
the old man laughed and said while patting the man on his shoulder...
"PRACTISE, MY SON, LOTS OF PRACTISE" 
that's just it! good luck.
thanks for letting me add my comment to your thread. CHEERS  you provide the character, and i will take care of the rest to capture your persona. |
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 ID: 164268 Posts: 10 | Date: 2008-03-29 02:30 Thank you very much all, and I'm very appreciated your positive input! 
Here are two new pics just add and please let me know what do you think. |
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 ID: 162309 Posts: 37 | Date: 2008-03-29 10:25 Lewis Lam,
the latest post is excellent. I can honestly say that you know your photography
techniques and lighting. for that , you really have a lot more going for you
than many photographers.
even if your models are new or inexperienced, what i see here from your
portfolio , i must say it's all very impressive.
if you can work with these models to get them to do more quality works like
these,
i don't see a problem for you. WELL DONE!
those are very professional looking works you have here. you provide the character, and i will take care of the rest to capture your persona. |
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 ID: 164268 Posts: 10 | Date: 2008-03-29 11:25 Dear Carib,
You're comments are extremely informative and am greatly appreciated!
Many many thanks 
Beast regards,
Lewis
Carib Goodies:
There are few professions where you need to know the ins and outs of
personalities more than in photography.
Part of your art is drawing out the core of the individual for the role they
have to play.
Think of modeling as acting. Think of yourself as the director. A director on a
movie set has to do anything within reason to get the desired emotion, effect
and performance out of the actor.
Sometimes, when dealing with unskilled models, the photographer has to create a
situation in which the proper emotion is shown.
I have had models and the need for a happy, exuberant scene...not overboard with
exaggerated expressions, but genuine joy restrained by the very real fact that
people rarely let out their true emotional feelings in public. So, I create
situations where the emotions are genuine. For scenes such as this I have on
occassion had an order f flowers delivered during the shoot. That moment of
realization in the model that the flowers are for her causes her emotional guard
or nervousness to be let down for a few brief seconds and in that time I can get
some shots of honest emotion.
On the flip side I have had to make models mad to get an angry shot. Bore them
to death to obtain ennui. Treat them like a princess to get love or longing.
Etc., etc., etc.
At the end of the day, however, everyone needs to realize everything was just an
act to get the job done. A photographer working without directors has to have
thick skin sometimes.
And then the bottom line is that you have to have a firm idea in your head
before the shoot of exactly what you want and how you are going to achieve your
goal.
Charles' point about communication is an interesting one which brings back
memories of a London model I worked with several years ago. She spoke a deep
cockney and gave me more communications problems than any other foreign model I
have worked with. We were both speaking English (I think) but neither of us
could understand a word the other was saying. We did several dozen shoots over
the course of two weeks. By the second shoot I brought along with me a local
model who would pose and then the London model copy. Other shoots I started
pantomiming what I needed. I also typed up instructions.
All communication is basically the same. We share the same experiences worldwide
and react to emotional situations in the same way. Outward manifestation may be
different, but the core is the same. Languages formed based upon our mimicking
or assigning sounds to things that naturally described them to other people. Why
language has evolved and become more complex, the root entomologies remain. Find
the commonalities and you will suddenly find you can communicate very well with
people who speak other languages.
A happy smile or gesture gets a happy smile in return. A dissatisfied scowl
causes worry and insecurity. Sticking out your tongue gets a laugh. Scratching
your armpit suddenly distracts attention and causes a wide range of emotional
looks to ripple across a face in a fraction of a second.
Think about what situations provoke various emotions in you and imitate them for
your model.
Be patient. You can never rush something and have it turn out perfect.
Be confidant. If you show weakness or uncertainty, your model will not stay in
role.
(And, I try not to duel with models.  I am quite handy with guns and blades but do not
like cleaning up the bloody mess they leave behind.)
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 ID: 235463 Posts: 14 | Date: 2008-05-22 02:58 Porter's camera store in Cedar Falls, Iowa has some very good books on posing.
You may want to look them up at www.porters.com. Also, a good friendship with a
model you use on a regular basis sure helps. |
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 ID: 190390 Posts: 29 | Date: 2008-06-25 05:42 Patience works wonders, build trust with a model even an inexpereicned one, with
patience and trust you can work wonders. |
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 ID: 190390 Posts: 29 | Date: 2008-06-25 05:55 Most models are happy to work in situations. one thing you can also try is
working with former models who have retired, they can teach you a lot about
shooting and posing and are often happy to get back in front of a camera again.
I learned a lot working with a retired model, it made me a better photographer. |
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 ID: 164268 Posts: 10 | Date: 2008-06-25 06:25 Thanks for your love Nathan |
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Total results: 15 Pages: 1 [ 1] |