Requirements For Professionals Total results: 14 Pages: 1 [ 1] |
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 ID: 183878 Posts: 1577 | Date: 2009-11-04 09:24 Once again, I'm going to suggest that there be requirements for professionals
listing here. There is no reason not to ask for credentials, tear-sheets,
images, audio and or video to prove you are an actor, dancer, producer, agent,
even if you are starting out. To be in business you have to have some resources
and something to show why or how you can do what you say you do.
We've got photographers being listed on the strength of one image. We have
people claiming to be professionals whose uploaded images are out of focus or
poorly framed.
It's a real laugh to go from approving a really good photographer who classes
himself as semi-pro to someone claiming to be a pro who doesn't know proper
exposure, focus, framing, lighting, etc.If I haven't been there, I'm still planning on going!
If I haven't done it, I've still got time to try! |
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 ID: 245492 Posts: 68 | Date: 2009-11-04 09:34 Charles, i agree with you.
But i guess that will be difficult to make a rule for this. |
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 ID: 255444 Posts: 842 | Date: 2009-11-04 09:43 One thing I have learnt along the way is there there are some very good
amatures, and some incredibly bad pros out there. The main criteria for
classification remains that a "pro", by definition, earns the majority of his or
her income from their 'profession'. The understanding is that bad pros will
obviously have a harder time making a living at their trade. The reverse is
that, however good, an amature who does not elect to make his talent a main
source of income is therefore not a working pro.
As far as this site applies, we obviously have no insight as to a members stream
of income. We therefore default to the quality of the work displayed. This is
obviously easier to judge with photographers and models than it is with actors
and dancers, for example.Why do we struggle to paddle upstream while the river is taking us where we need to go? |
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 ID: 273161 Posts: 334 | Date: 2009-11-04 12:03 from my side of things, I can see what you mean, and i completely understand.
but for someone who is starting out, who has never gotten a role, or had an
opertunity to go into the studio what are we suppose to post?  The only
photos that we have for the moment, are photos that we've taken ourselves.  Like ive had my account
here for a little while now, and I only just last week went on my first
photoshoot... |
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ID: 255444 Posts: 842 | Date: 2009-11-04 12:15 Carolyn Cook:
from my side of things, I can see what you mean, and i completely understand.
but for someone who is starting out, who has never gotten a role, or had an
opertunity to go into the studio what are we suppose to post? The only
photos that we have for the moment, are photos that we've taken ourselves. Like ive had my account
here for a little while now, and I only just last week went on my first
photoshoot...
I am sure that Charles' intention is not to knock newbies. However, as stated,
if someone is just starting out, and consequently not earning a full income from
their trade, they would, by default, not qualify as a professional. The main
issue is members billing themselves as professional when they have apparently
not yet reached that level.Why do we struggle to paddle upstream while the river is taking us where we need to go? |
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Mystique Eyed Phoenix IonU |
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 ID: 114505 Posts: 1094 | Date: 2009-11-04 12:51 Hello every1..
Some other things that concerns me, are the Pro Photographers, who use another
Modeling site to list as their main web link. Most of the Pros have their own
personal website besides their other significant outbranching links. And another
thing, that is disturbing, is finding true amateurs with cell phone picks listed
as having one or two or three, etc. UNION affiliations. If they can't have any
decent photos at all...some are so grainy beyond artistic impression of
experimentation..:the face looks like it has a rash or some strange thing. I
agree with Charles that I have seen SEMI-PRO listed Photographers, whose man web
link displays the utmost of the cream of Professionalism. But also, in such
instances, then their portfolio doesn't show off their best photos either, which
makes them look Semi-Pro.
Another ordeal is that members who have been with us for a lengthy stay, & want
to show their climb through the various status stages, cannot have the personal
portfolio power to go into their account and rearrange upload images ...so their
outside portfolio may look amateurish, but their inside photos that most people
don't see are more Professional. Our system doesn't allow for rotating order of
uploaded images to accommodate changes of achievements. |
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 ID: 194304 Posts: 143 | Date: 2009-11-04 14:10 Robert, how are we going to get people to display their income in a day of ID
theft?
If we can't get people to be honest about their measurement & weight, and most
people don't seem to care about that, why request an income inquiry, won't they
just say whatever they want to say?
once upon a time.
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ID: 255444 Posts: 842 | Date: 2009-11-04 14:22 Dominic Ventura:
Robert, how are we going to get people to display their income in a day of ID
theft?
If we can't get people to be honest about their measurement & weight, and most
people don't seem to care about that, why request an income inquiry, won't they
just say whatever they want to say?
In my first post I adressed this concern....
Robert Leonard:
....
, we obviously have no insight as to a members stream of income. We therefore
default to the quality of the work displayed. This is obviously easier to judge
with photographers and models than it is with actors and dancers, for
example.
As you can see, I stated that we must defer to the caliber of the posted images
for photogs. However this is far more difficult when dealing with actors,
models, and singers...Why do we struggle to paddle upstream while the river is taking us where we need to go? |
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 ID: 270426 Posts: 168 | Date: 2009-11-04 17:03 People in this site mostly doing wrong clerification about their weight,hieght
etc...
the question rise...who is pro ? my self is working as professional photographer
in a little city in India,there is hardly chance to show my skill in outdoor &
other locality,working as pro from last 40 yrs.
iI declared here my self as ameture,but one senior photographer advice me to
change urself as semipro/pro.....
I do agree with Mr. Robert & Mastique... |
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ID: 255444 Posts: 842 | Date: 2009-11-04 17:12 studio jyoti:
People in this site mostly doing wrong clerification about their weight,hieght
etc...
the question rise...who is pro ? my self is working as professional photographer
in a little city in India,there is hardly chance to show my skill in outdoor &
other locality,working as pro from last 40 yrs.
iI declared here my self as ameture,but one senior photographer advice me to
change urself as semipro/pro.....
....
For my part I owned and operated a studio for over 10 years. I served as
Government photographer for another 7 years. Earning a very comfortable income,
solely from photography. Have I lost any of the skills I had then? No, in fact I
have kept well informed and adept with current technology. However I would not
clasify myself as a pro on the mere grownds that the majority of my income is no
longer derived directly from shooting. Although all of my income is still
photography driven. My choice of semi pro classification was driven more by the
above statement than it was from by my ability to shoot. Although others might
disagree, on skill, ability, and experience, I would not have hessitated to post
a professional classification. (another two cents worth  )Why do we struggle to paddle upstream while the river is taking us where we need to go? |
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 ID: 188071 Posts: 537 | Date: 2009-11-04 17:31 What about profiles of those Models that reached & sustained PROFESSIONAL staus
for a time being that are/were Supermodels being setback to Pro or Semi-Pro or
even humiliated to the least level of reduction by being categorized as
Amateur???
Income fluxuation should NOT dictate what has been Acquired ....EXAMPLE:
Try taking Presidents off the Timeline of Political gain or personal
achievements, & reducing them to a nearly non-mentionable classification.
President Obama's NOBEL PEACE PRIZE STILL STANDS, like him, his ways, or not!
--That's the sort of upset stirring in one aspect, & invalidation that is
detracting serious members, who are willing to invest in this site.
WHY, WHY .. What the Hades is that fool play for???
.......EXPLAIN that chisel pixel playpen of poppycocky!
People haven't shown much concern for this./'
All I can conclude is that ... eventually all this could end up as every1 having
their own portfolio listing to the point of status verification being
implemented in & upon an open screening & job scene evaluation issue. All
evidence will be supplied when those that engage in contract for whatever talent
service/s are needed to suffice the proposed term./'/'/'
Ralf Winkler:
Charles, i agree with you.
But i guess that will be difficult to make a rule for this.
NOBODY GETS PAID ENOUGH to do all that time consuming research.
People are busy scratching each other's backs to climb the ladder of shuck-cess,
or standing on their own, which is tougher, & takes more guts to go against the
"sheeple."/'
My ONLY non sympathetic appeal is for the DEVIL & his advocates, who come on
here to
solely & soulessly undermine.
Robert Leonard:
[Dominic Ventura: ...]
In my first post I adressed this concern....
[Robert Leonard: ...]
As you can see, I stated that we must defer to the caliber of the posted images
for photogs. However this is far more difficult when dealing with actors,
models, and singers...
Caliber the rage , Cage the GAGE, Mope the SCOPE, RANGE the strange, TARGET the
.. BULL-list-trick!!!...SOUNDS LIKE MODE BOOT "Cramp"...
ROBERT ..This
ought to juice your Zeus:'>
Can't forget the year 'round Corny-cope-yuck load of Agencies listed that have
no logo?
That's like a cracker jackin' Newspaper without a Header Name.
I understand the starting block concept of grace period, but profiles that
didn't log in for over a year, or never wrote one tittle or jot of any aspiring
bit of info at all? Oh spoofies.
If places like OMP & Muse Cube, etc. don't make you list financial
status/'...Why should Jurgita? Moderators of understanding know why not,
already. The whole point is if you see a portfolio that is what you want to
connect to to work with.....There are self-imposed choices to screen all the
portfolios that have bad photos with persons of good personalities, to those who
have great portfolios with rotten personalities, & everything inbetween.
It's up to the public to exercise discernment, & not be confined to only the PRO
way of thinking...OR else JURGITA will lose memberships./'
We are gathered here to allow a freedom that permits people to be who they are,
but comply with the currently understood.'Hair' TODAY, (Cy)  .:. NET=---> Tomorrow!   |
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ID: 255444 Posts: 842 | Date: 2009-11-04 18:30 Andromeda, and others;
I certainly was not advocating that my reasons for choosing the classification
that I did, be used as a guideline for this site. Who am i to know who is pro or
not, and I certainly will not profess to, especially in areas where I am no
expert. Exccept for some photographers, I would never, and have not demoted
profile professional ratings. My tenure in the industry has given me reference
with witch to judge the caliber of posted images. But how do you judge a dancer,
singer, or actor from an image?
And as for the whole income thing. I was just stating what is my definition for
pro status. A definition who's qualifiers cannot, and should not, be assessed on
this site. Although there is a field in flirtzone where members can claim an
income range, I see no benefit to that information for the purpose of this site,
and I do include professional grading in that comment.Why do we struggle to paddle upstream while the river is taking us where we need to go? |
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 ID: 182744 Posts: 1904 | Date: 2009-11-04 21:52 Charles Griffin:
Once again, I'm going to suggest that there be requirements for professionals
listing here. There is no reason not to ask for credentials, tear-sheets,
images, audio and or video to prove you are an actor, dancer, producer, agent,
even if you are starting out. To be in business you have to have some resources
and something to show why or how you can do what you say you do.
We've got photographers being listed on the strength of one image. We have
people claiming to be professionals whose uploaded images are out of focus or
poorly framed.
It's a real laugh to go from approving a really good photographer who classes
himself as semi-pro to someone claiming to be a pro who doesn't know proper
exposure, focus, framing, lighting, etc.
Charles, I have to agree with you in the instance of image framing, quality,
lighting, etc. as regards whether or not a photographer can shoot at pro caliber
levels.
On the other side, I agree with Robert that the US Government and many others,
classify professionals not on the quality of their work, but o their ability to
earn an income from that work.
IRS calls an individual a professional photographer if they achieve 51% of their
annual income from photography. This means that IRS classifies the kid with a
pocket cam who can get tourists to give him $5 bucks per crappy tourist pic a
professional while the art world would call that person a disgrace.
Income verification is nasty business. Looking for a license is not a valid
method either since a photographer working for a newspaper or magazine, etc. is
an employee and does not require a license. However, for a site like this, what
is wrong with tears sheets or listing of verifiable work
references?
I believe that the site should look towards going the extra step of verification
for Pro status for a lot more reasons than that.
Basing status on the quality of an image presented is very, very shaky ground in
this technological era. I was recently asked by a camera retailer to take a Sony
pocket still and video camera underwater with me and to produce a commercial
with it. The camera was fully automatic with no options to manually set focus,
aperture, shutter speed or anything. Using point and shoot mode (and a bit of
study to understand how that camera reads light) I produced a video product that
runs on display and is selling the cameras.
Point and shoot mode. An amateur today can get quality, through automation, that
only an experienced pro could get just 10 years ago. So...anyone can get lucky
and produce a good print.
What separates the true pros from the wannabees, is the ability to produce, on
demand, the image that the customer wants and needs. Anyone who cannot, will not
be in business long.
I do have a chuckle now and then at the togs who manage to get an ultra slick,
high-end magazine style shot and believe that that will launch them into the
professional life. Hey NEWS FLASH most professional photography
is drudge work. Small daily accounts that keep cash continually flowing through
and once in a while you get to do the big job when commissioned.
Professional photography is long, thankless and arduous hours spent shooting and
producing for regular consumption. It is also a fairly low paying profession,
even if you work for the big mags and newspapers. In fact, ask any
photojournalist today...newspapers have them doing many more tasks than just
photography...up to an including editing and writing.
Brave new world...brave new standards...and we as Moderators needs to keep up
with those changing standards and establish firm criteria for what is a
professional photography in an internet age industry where more and more young
models are being exposed to individuals who have never been near the modeling
industry.
People should know what they are booking or trading for. Have faith that the universe will unfold as it should  |
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ID: 182744 Posts: 1904 | Date: 2009-11-04 23:39 Carolyn Cook:
from my side of things, I can see what you mean, and i completely understand.
but for someone who is starting out, who has never gotten a role, or had an
opertunity to go into the studio what are we suppose to post? The only
photos that we have for the moment, are photos that we've taken ourselves. Like ive had my account
here for a little while now, and I only just last week went on my first
photoshoot...
What you describe qualifies you as an amateur. What are you supposed to do?
Well, a true professional works almost everyday in their field. It is what the
pro does and what the pro lives for. If you want to be a professional model, you
have to go out there and force your own shooting opportunities. If you cannot
get any shoots, the public has spoken and perhaps that individual should look
elsewhere to earn an income.
Photography demands skill, training and enough business sense to gain regular
and steady employment. For a model,re gardless of skill, experience or training,
it stilll boils down to looks and availability.
But seriously, you cannot expect the site to classify someone higher than
amateur simply because they have been on-site a year and obtained only one photo
shoot. That is the classic definition of an amateur. No insult intended...it is
a very tough industry for models and for photographers without formal
training.
On another note...if you are expecting photographers to hire you, for the most
part you are not going to be hired by a
professionalphotographer. That is not how photographers make
money. Photographers make money from an employer or from clients. Those are the
people you want to go after for paid gigs, not the professional photographer. Have faith that the universe will unfold as it should |
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Total results: 14 Pages: 1 [ 1] |
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